The incidence of rape in the United States has declined 85% in the past 25 years while access to pornography has become freely available to teenagers and adults. The Nixon and Reagan Commissions tried to show that exposure to pornographic materials produced social violence. The reverse may be true: that pornography has reduced social violence.
Not surprised.
Hardly conclusive evidence, but I'll bite, its a good theory.
I doubted the statistics but they seem to be correct. I still would not give credit to pornography but to education. Not to minimize the issue here are some other statistics:
In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes ech month and 683,280 rapes each year. 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assulted in her lifetime. The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It's 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan. 1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband. 83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under. 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape. 1 in 12 males students surveyed had commited acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had commited such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape. 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquintance rape had been drinking or using drugs. Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police
Please do not misunderstand or misrepresent my comments below as trivializing the incidence of rape, denying that it is a problem or that it is an abhorrent act. Neither am I "Japan bashing".
I have strong doubts about the statistical comparisons between the United States and other countries. These statistics are subject to differences in definitions, differences in social context, and probably more importantly, differences in willingness of the victim to report. Within the United States alone we know that women are more willing now than 100 year ago to report a rape, which means that a higher reported rate does not mean a higher incidence rate.
20 times higher than Japan
I doubt this figure the most. Japanese women are not encouraged to report rape. In fact, I believe there is a huge social pressure to keep it quiet. The woman ends up being blamed and effectively punished for the crime. This happens in the U.S. as well, but I'll claim not nearly as much as in Japan.
In Japan, "rape porn" is highly popular, whereas in the United States such porn is rare if not taboo. Interestingly, if you google "japanese rape pornography", the first search result is Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan. The study references a great deal of information and varied viewpoints, concluding
It is certainly clear from our data and analysis that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so among youngsters as perpetrators or victims.
The Wikipedia article on pornography, also references a vast amount of information, and echoes my thoughts in one section:
Japan, which is noted for large number of rape fantasy pornography, has the lowest reported sex crime rate in the industrialized world, which has led some researchers to speculate that an opposite relationship may in fact exist—that wide availability of pornography may reduce crimes by giving potential offenders a socially accepted way of regulating their own sexuality. Conversely, some argue that reported sex crime rates are low in Japan because the culture ( a culture that greatly emphasizes a woman's "honor") is such that victims of sex crime are less likely to report it (e.g. chikan [28]).
BTW, you should cite the sources for all the statistics you provide, otherwise they are useless.
I think pornography is OK and that if it were true that pornography provided a release for the strong, primal sex drive that many men feel and would otherwise be forced to suppress given modern culture and morality, I would say pornography is even more than OK. But oddly, I cannot feel the same about rape porn. I feel it is extremely wrong. If a movie is depicting rape because that is essential to the story, then that's fine. But let's be frank about porn: the story is not important. Guy's jerk off with it. And guy's jerking off at a rape scene seems so wrong on so many levels.
Am I being a hypocrite? I know some women are against pornography of any kind because they feel any porn is a form of violence agaisnt or rape of women.
I understand what you're saying, but it's a difficult topic. It's hard to draw a line on what is acceptable and what is wrong in porn. There are some obvious things that are just wrong, like child pornography, and that's why it's illegal. Rape porn is a more difficult topic. And for anyone who isn't clear we're talking about a simulated rape done by actors, not a video of an actual rape which is obviously wrong. While I don't find anything exciting about the concept myself there are obviously those who do. As is the case with a lot of the different types of porn.
So one question that needs to be asked is whether watching rape porn would actually incite someone to commit rape? Or is it the reverse, something like watching a simulated rape could somehow satisfy those who would otherwise commit rape? Or maybe there are just those that view it as another type of porn and don't really care about the rape concept one way or the other. There's no real way of answering this without an extensive study being done, and that's a difficult study to do.
Another obvious criticism of rape porn would be that the majority of it is demeaning to women (I'm sure there must be some reverse rape porn of a man being raped by women, which would be demeaning to men, but I expect the percentage of that type of rape porn to be much lower). This criticism is obviously fair, but then an argument can be made where the majority of porn can be considered demeaning to women and it's a matter of where to draw the line. What about porn showing prostitution? Or porn just showing the man being aggressive to the woman in general?
I guess the question is how big the audience for rape porn is, and whether that audience is increasing at a faster rate than the audience for porn in general. If no specific study on the effect of rape porn can be done (which would be difficult), I guess you would have to look for an increase in an effect you think it might cause. So far, by the numbers in this paper, it seems that watching porn in general does not increase rape. If the numbers in rape start increasing then it might be worth checking to see if the market for rape porn is increasing. Otherwise it's just a moral issue of whether what is being shown is wrong, and it's too difficult to say that this type of porn is bad but another type is ok.
No, I actually think there is a fundamental difference between rape porn and non-rape porn, one that is not simply a issue of degree.
The basic function of porn, as suggested by the seeded article and the comments made by myself and others, is to act as a substitute for real sex, for which I think we all agree there is a natural drive that can be very strong in many if not most people. The drive is natural given that sex is essential to the survival of the species.
So what could be the psychological function of rape porn? Is there an evolutionary basis for a rape drive? I seriously doubt it. The only people who can derive pleasure from rape porn are those that learn to derive pleasure from it. It is not a genetically driven need. I would categorize this as a cultural cancer that needs to be eradicated, not fed.
Right I understand this concept, but what about porn showing the male being abusive to the female, completely humiliating her? Even if it's not shown as rape, as in the girl in the video is being paid to be treated this way, should it be allowed? You can argue it's not as bad as showing a rape but it's essentially the same. While there are women who may be submissive enough to enjoy being treated this way, the majority do not. So is this type of porn promoting abusive sex? Is there a psychological function in men to be abusive to women?
I've known a couple women in my life who had a fantasy of being raped. Now, this is a fantasy mind you, it's not that they're actually hoping to get raped or would enjoy it in any way if they did. I'm no psychologist, but I don't think this fantasy is a typical one, however it seems it does exist. So I must assume this fantasy must also exist for some men.
I also do think that some men do have a rape drive and would rape if they could get away with it. I think it's more the fear of going to jail that keeps them in check. Look at the prevalence of rape in times of war. Maybe it's just the stress of war that makes men crazy, or maybe it's just the fact they feel they can get away with it with no repercussions.
I would really like to see a study to see if there's any correlation being rape porn and rapists. Is rape porn actually enforcing this behavior or is it enjoyed by people that already would like to commit rape if they could get away with it and are using this as an outlet?
One can't claim causation in this correlation, there are obviously many more factors at play here. But I think at the very least, it takes away the option of blaming porn for these things. Which is a good thing, because perhaps if we take away all these easy outs, we will start looking into more social and cultural factors that lead to sexual abuse.
An argument for causation was in the paper:
Correlations aside, could access to pornography actually reduce the incidence of
rape as a matter of causation? In my article I mentioned one possibility: that some people
watching pornography may "get it out of their system" and thus have no further desire to
go out and actually try it. Another possibility might be labeled the "Victorian effect": the
more that people covered up their bodies with clothes in those days, the greater the
mystery of what they looked like in the nude. The sight of a woman's ankle was
considered shocking and erotic. But today, internet porn has thoroughly de-mystified sex.
Times have changed so much that some high school teachers of sex education are
beginning to show triple-X porn movies to their students in order to depict techniques of
satisfactory intercourse.
While I would agree that it's not a very strong argument, at least an attempt was made. I still find the correlation interesting either way. And as you said it takes away that option of blaming porn.
I don't believe men have stronger sex drives than women do, and the major reason many women have so little interest in sex is because of being sexually abused or raped. When I was younger I had a strong sex drive but after exposure to sexual violence in the media and being raped myself, I didn't want anything to do with sex if it was like that. I believe that if men were raped as much as women are and exploited by the media as much as women are, they would dislike sex because of it. Anytime people are forced to do something against their will, they begin to dislike it. The reason for women getting raped more than men has to do with society being run by men. The male dominated culture that is so concerned about men's needs to the exclusion of women's need to the point of being abusive. Men have run everything in the world since recorded history. They have put themselves first and totally ignored the needs of women. Women weren't suppose to live their lives for themselves, but for men. Men had this totally selfish attitudes about women. Any one can be selfish. It women had been the one's to run things, women could have put women first and denied men education, job opportunites, etc. Women could have made the norm in society anything that benefits women to the exclusion of men's need. Men are born into a society where they are privileged and because they are privileged they get the impression that they are entitled to more privileges than women even to the point of abuse of women. White people have done the same to black people. Many white people believe they are entitled to more than black people because they are born into a world where white people benefit more than blacks. The same things that cause discrimination in the job market against women, are the same things that cause rape. The learned selfishness of men. Pornography tells men that men's sexual needs are more important than women's sexual needs, just like men feel their needs for money, a good education and a good job and material things should be more important to them than they should be to women. Well women have the same needs for a good education, a good career, a good lifestyle including good sex. Women are sexual beings too and men are totally ignoring our sexual needs just like all our needs. They are socialized to be self-centered. If they weren't socialized to be so self-centered and to think about women's need for a change, they wouldn't be raping women. Young children are selfish but they are suppose to grow up and grow out of this selfishness, but for many men, they never grow up and continue to believe the world should revolve around them. They care about no one but themselves, their sexual needs, etc. Men rape not because of high sex drives, but because of selfishness. Do you think it is OK for women to buy rape porn of women raping men? Women have sexual fantasies too, but just like everything else, men are so stuck on themselves that they don't even think women should be able to buy porn of their sexual fantasies.
You're just plain neurotic lady! This is a woman's world, not a man's world(unless you live in some muslim or asian country). If a woman is homeless the government will give her a place to live, if a man is homeless they could care less. If a woman wants to do anything a man does, she can do it. I don't think women should be in the military if they can't do EXACTLY what a man can do, ie:REAL pushups and the same amount as men have to, etc. If you want to be a man, then be one, otherwise you're a woman and you need to use what you have to make the life you want. As far as rape, men do it because they got away with it a little, then a little more, then alot, and then it becomes habit. It makes weak men feel stronger and more powerful. But to some people it's a fantasy they want to explore. Maybe not you, but ALOT of women fantasize about being raped. They don't WANT to actually BE raped, but the fantasy of it can sometimes arouse erotic feelings that are exciting to explore. There are people out there that fantasize about being eaten alive, or being strangled to death, and it's sexually stimulating to them. They don't really WANT this to happen, but the fantasy of it is somehow stimulating. Why? Who knows, everyone is different. But not everyone has sex just to make babies. Some actually do it for fun, and sometimes exploration can lead you into wild directions. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for ANYONE who commits rape. My wife was raped several times by relatives, neighbors, and other men since she was 4, so I live with firsthand experience every day. It never goes away. But if consenting adults fantasize about seeing it performed by other consenting adults, then who are you to tell them what they can do? I had a friend who was murdered while working at a convenience store. She had her throat slit and died on the phone with 911. Does that mean I think they should stop showing murders on TV and movies? Using your logic, they should, because seeing it cause others to kill too. So why is ok to slaughter men womaen AND children(even on Star Wars episode 6!?!!) on TV in cold, ruthless, senseless ways, effectively glorifying it, yet adults aren't allowed to watch other adults pretending to have forced sex?? Which brings me to another peeve, maybe because I'm a man... Why is rape a worse crime that murder?? I would much rather have a guy stick his thing in me and do his business than remove my head from my body... Feel free to freak out on me, I tend to bring out the worst in people lol.
Just my two cents: I came across this discussion looking for a way to address my own forced sex fantasies while in a stable and trusting relationship. I've lived with a man I love dearly for four years now, we own a house and three cats together, (well, the cats mostly own us...) and we're talking about marriage. I have NO desire to be raped in reality, but I've had rape fantasies since I was a little girl. I've never been sexually assaulted, I grew up in a loving and supportive home, and my boyfriend is a very good man. My sister was raped by a friend in high school and it makes me sick every time I think about it. But my fantasies are very real and there is no ignoring them. I know rape fantasies among psychologically healthy women are not uncommon and I'm not ashamed, so I deal with it the best way I can: I watch and read porn! So now I'm addressing the fact that my strongest sexual fantasy cannot be realized (nor would I really want it to). Do I have these fantasies because I'm avoiding closeness? Do I want to give over control or not be responsible for my desires? Or is it just exactly like the woman who reads romance novels or the man who loves big breasts? I don't know. They're part of me, just like anyone's else's fantasies, no better, no worse. I can't speak for men who enjoy these fantasies, but porn has helped me validate these thoughts that I would otherwise feel guilty and confused about and share my fantasies with my boyfriend. Anyway, just my personal experience....
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